But Liberals support the troops, right?

Liberals support our troops

 Liberals always claim they support the troops, and many do, but not all.  How, after all, can anyone be taken seriously when they say they supports someone but oppose everything they do? But liberals never come out and say our troops are liars, torturers and whatever else they commonly slander the military for, they always attack straw men.  Take the torture charge, for example.  They say the Bush Administration tortures just about every Arab they can get their hands on in Iraq, but who is in Iraq?  That would be the troops, right?  Sure, they may come back and say it’s the CIA, but the military (i.e. the troops) would have to be aiding in all that torture over there, wouldn’t they?  They are, after all, the ones in the field “rounding up people for torture.”

The latest example of liberals accusing our troops of basically treason is the incident in the Strait of Hormuz with Iran and was first posited on Huffington Post by a guy called Hoorman Majd.  Forget the fact that he was a translator for the last two Iranian Presidents when they were in the US and that he’s an Arab, none of that matters.  What matters is his day job is a music executive and movie producer who declared “It’s a Fake” when blogging about it.  No military background, he just knows.

(You can see the video for yourself here.)

Fine, he’s entitled to his opinion (a courtesy rarely extended by the Left to Conservatives (read Jonah Goldberg’s Liberal Fascism for a history of the Left’s tolerance)), the telling part of the post is found in the comment section. 

The straw man is again the Bush Administration, this time joined by the Pentagon.  There are countless references to the Gulf of Tonkin, Democrat Lyndon Johnson’s lie, by the way.  But deeper, there is a hatred and distrust of the military in general, the troops.  After all, who would video taped it?  Who was on the US warship?  If it were a staged event, surely there would’ve been countless troops in on it, right?  It’s not like 2 guys can take a ship like that out for a joy ride.  The fact that none have come forward to “tell the truth” means the conspirators behind September 11th are at it again!  Or so some of them seem to think. 

Here are some choice comments from the post.  While reading these, keep in mind they “support the troops” and then ask yourself what they would say if they didn’t.

(And remember the USS Cole, 17 members of our military were murdered by a suicide bomber on a small boat packed with explosives.)

 collapse  WhiteyWard (See profile | I’m a fan of WhiteyWard) All the Administration has to do is have some Pisswater employees get a boat and make the scene, the USNavy knows the drill. Now we can cancel the phony election, let the hounds louse on the demonstrations and retire to the Bush compound in Dubai. This guy wants to own 4 nations before he leaves.

 collapse  jhamm1 (See profile | I’m a fan of jhamm1) Gulf of Tonkin, anyone?

Seriously, this is looking all too familiar. It”s pretty obvious that Bush is attempting to trump up this supposed “provocation” as a means of generating the equivalent of a second Gulf of Tonkin incident, thereby justifying an all-out military “retaliation” against Iran under the doctrine of insuinating that “they shot first”, as opposed to bullshitting us into another “pre-emptive” strike as a means of alleviating a potential “nukular” threat to the region.

collapse  mommadona (See profile | I’m a fan of mommadona) Hey, Bush is visiting the area.Gotta create that John Wayne moment.
Anyone else sick of this male bonding circlejerk?

 collapse  cylindar (See profile | I’m a fan of cylindar) You are right in your suspicions. When I saw and heard reports of the incident, I instantly intuited that this was a fake somehow. Bush is looking to create another Gulf Of Tonkin isn’t he?

collapse  jashu51 (See profile | I’m a fan of jashu51) I’m supposed to believe that those little pissant Iranian patrol boats posed a threat? They looked like a kid’s bathtub toys compared to the Navy cruisers. Maybe if they were loaded with explosives and manned by a suicide pilot. But somehow I’m not falling for it.

collapse  gopindrag (See profile | I’m a fan of gopindrag) This would be hilarious if everyone saw through it for what it is. Unfortunately, in America today we have a bunch of BIG sissies terrified at the prospect of speedboats threatening destroyer escorts, Bill OReilly screeching like a girl being threatened by a cockroach.
What has happened to the land of the brave? Why is our President such a freaking sissy, such a patent leather combat boot, such a shrieking freaking cheerleader?
Please God let us place bravery and commonsense in the white house come November.

collapse  Heyman (See profile | I’m a fan of Heyman) Sure the video footage is faked. Anyone who believes this criminal White House? Is buying into the lies. AGAIN.
And the criminal MEDIA is feeding you fools. This administrations garbage.
Forget the racists comments to the writer. If I wrote this? What would you suckers have to say to me? I’m a born American. Honorable Discharged, (12 years,) veteran.
Don’t buy into this Iran trap. All these oilmen want is another country to leech off of.
When the hell are we going to learn how to drive electric cars, again? Remember GM’s Impact? The electric car that could “smoke” a gas driven car in a quarter mile. And go over 120 miles per hour! Don’t take my word. I watched the video, WHO KILLED THE ELECTRIC CAR. Find out who was responsible for destroying our future without oil. You’ll be surprized. (Maybe not…)
If these warmongers do attack Iran? Be prepared for a draft. And an all out police state country.

collapse  JD-28 (See profile | I’m a fan of JD-28) I would not put it past this criminal administration to phony up an Iranian confrontation to pull the U.S. closer to war with Iran. The neocons have had wood for war with Iran for a long time. Cheney gets a half-chub just imagining the prospect. But, I doubt that the MSM will ever question the administration about this, let alone investigate their claims. You’d think someone in the MSM would’ve learned from that idiot Judith Campbell not to believe this criminal administration.

 collapse  jazzman (See profile | I’m a fan of jazzman) Ok, it was an amusing video the Navy produced. Now I think they should return the speedboats to lake Winnepasaki, let the frat boys (who probably dropped their white beer coolers in the water) go back to college, and let Robin Williams go back to doing his wierd accents in movies and comedy clubs.

There are countless more examples of comments like these.  But they support the troops!

Here is a good comment on this from the Weekly Standard.


26 Responses to “But Liberals support the troops, right?”

  1. 1 LLP
    January 10, 2008 at 8:36 am

    Typical post from a bunch of all-talk-hawks. If you guys care so much about Iraq, why don’t you enlist? Don’t you guys want to win?

    You do realize that winning will require something more than sitting around eating burritos and blogging excitedly about war? That none of what you guys do is productive toward winning?

    Look at this blog – there’s a 60 year old trying to re-enlist!


    Young/college Republicans are COWARDS!

  2. 2 firstfriday
    January 10, 2008 at 9:17 am

    There are several contributors to this blog, and 2 served. We also have many military readers. But to address your “logic,” let’s apply it to you. If you can’t support the troops and their effort without having served, then you can’t speak out against them unless you’ve served. And you certainly can’t suggest strategy without having served. So, have you? If not, you are a coward! If so, you are a coward. No matter what, you are a coward. See how your “logic” works? But thank you for showing a fresh example of Liberal’s “support for our miltary.”

    If people like you didn’t exist, we’d have to ivent you, but as fiction, no one would believe you.

  3. 3 LLP
    January 10, 2008 at 9:57 am


    Thank you for your service. Because I do not know if you are one of the 2 contributors who have served, I will assume the best and that I’m talking to one.

    You mischaracterize the argument. One does not have to serve to hold an opinion on the war, but RESPECT for one’s opinion must be earned.

    It’s those who haven’t served that always squawk the loudest for war. Anyone who believes this war is so necessary for the defense of the US, and who recognizes that we need a larger army to help win, yet refuses to consider service, despite being eligible, is indeed a Coward. Don’t worry about me, I’m busy being a hippie wuss. But claiming to suppoort the war when all you do is sit around repeating things you hear on talk radio and rightie blogs definitely makes you a Chickenhawk. We are going to keep repeating this argument. All of the cowards who claim to be “fighting the war of ideas” or “fighting the war at home” need to realize that they are fighting no war at all, brave only in their own minds. If you guys believed your own words, you would be serving. The contributors on your blog who fail to serve are just another example of the disconnect between neo cons’ hysterical rhetoric and their complete unwillingness to get off their ass and do something productive to help win.

  4. 4 firstfriday
    January 10, 2008 at 10:45 am

    Love of the Constitution requires respecting other’s right to have opinions with which you disagree. The name Chickenhawk is a joke. The Constitution gives civilian control of the military and doesn’t require participation in the military to hold office or have opinions, but you do.

    By your logic you could have no opinion on any subject unless you participated in some way in the object of you opinion. So unless you’ve served in the military you can’t have an opinion on it. Well, that’s crap. (Would say you couldn’t have an opinion on surrender unless you’ve done so, but you may be French and we wouldn’t want to offend.)

    What ever happened to “Celebrate Diversity?” That should, if intellectually honest, include diversity of opinion. Rarely in Liberal bastions of “intellectualism” does it. It would seem that in Liberalism, diversity simply means “like minded drones with differing skin pigmentation.”

    You are free to call us anything you want, we’ve not made a move, nor will be, to censor your right to jump to conclusions and accuse us of anything. That is a courtesy rarely extended from your side. Therein lies the problem. Disagree all you want, but do so on substance. Otherwise you won’t be able to call for socialized health care unless you’re a doctor, and so on.

  5. 5 LLP
    January 10, 2008 at 11:05 am

    “What ever happened to “Celebrate Diversity?” That should, if intellectually honest, include diversity of opinion.”

    You want civil discourse and respect for opposing views? A visit to your blog reveals the follow “categories” of posts, among others:

    Douchebag of the Week
    Just a total douche
    Liberals Are Corrupt
    Liberals divide us
    Liberals Make Us Less Free
    Liberals Make Us Less Prosperous
    Liberals Make Us Less Safe
    Liberals Who Need to STFU

    You claim to want substantive debate yet you devote a whole category of posts to telling people to “shut the fuck up.”

    “So unless you’ve served in the military you can’t have an opinion on it.”

    You guys always mischaracterize the argument this way. The point is more nuanced than that. The point is, if you are using this hyperbolic, end of the world rhetoric about saving the world from the terrorists, how can you stand by when we are losing?

    So, in the interest of substantive debate, I am curious from an honest, intellectual standpoint how healthy war supporters who are eligible for service have not considered making a personal sacrifice to help win. I disagree with you about the Iraq war being necessary for the defense of the US, but if I agreed I would seriously consider what I could do to help win. The frustrating thing is you guys claim to be “fighting the war of ideas” etc. as if you were actually making a sacrifice to help win on the level of a soldier. Little Green Footballs has this graphic of terrorists reeling back in fear, as if they were personally afraid of the things being posted on an internet blog. Is this really what you think you’re accomplishing?

  6. 6 PJ
    January 10, 2008 at 11:25 am

    I know what LLP stands for “lily livered p*ssy”. Let me ask you this LLP. What is your definition of “Support OUR Troops”? How do you support them? Talk is cheap. What have you personally ever done for someone in the military. Without whose defense of our freedoms you would not be able to voice your opinions.

  7. 7 firstfriday
    January 10, 2008 at 11:54 am

    We’re accomplishing expressing our opinions, something you seem to have a problem with.

    I’m not a one with military service, but I spent 7 years uninsured, so by your way of thinking I’m an expert on the subject and what I say should be taken as gospel, correct? I say no to socialized medicine. There, the debate is over.

    There are a lot of reasons why people join the military, and just as many why people don’t. You imply a blood-lust and cowardice in your words without saying it, so just say it. In a round-about way you are questioning patriotism, right? There’s only one way to support the troops and that’s to become one yourself.

    I hope Sgt. Sharp is around sometime soon. He’s actually on active duty in Iraq. Would like to hear his thoughts on this, though you’d probably dismiss them as well. Will email him and see if he’s available.

  8. 8 LLP
    January 10, 2008 at 11:59 am

    Not sending our troops to fight and die except when it is NECESSARY for the defense of the US is how you support our troops. Our brave soldiers volunteer to defend our freedoms, and they trust us to only send them into combat when it is NECESSARY, not to prove some neo con academic theory about creating a reverse domino effect in the middle east by installing western style democracies in the hope it will influence other middle eastern countries to do the same. I mean, it’s a fun academic theory, but to use our army as a political science laboratory to test those theories is outrageous and immoral.

    Bush isn’t even trying to win anymore. He obviously just wants to keep the war going until January so he can dump this FUBAR into the next administration’s lap in an attempt to save his own legacy.

    Frankly I think we’d be better off with a draft. A draft army belongs to the people. Think we’d see so many hawks in the media eager to invade Iran if their kids were at risk of serving? By all means, we have to stop those awful Arabs, but we can’t put Lil’ Johnny Trustfund in danger, right?

  9. 9 LLP
    January 10, 2008 at 12:04 pm

    “There are a lot of reasons why people join the military, and just as many why people don’t. You imply a blood-lust and cowardice in your words without saying it, so just say it.”

    The pro war movement has framed the debate in terms of bravery and cowardice. Conservative media is full of rhetoric that amounts to an argument that those in favor of the war are personally brave, tough, strong, and that those against the war are cowards, defeatists, running away, and appeasing nazi germany.

    But you’re not actually doing anything productive to help win then you’re just as much a defeatist as I am, and you haven’t earned the right to call others defeatist. You can do it if you want, but it’s intellectually dishonest.

    And just because you know active duty soldiers who are pro war doesn’t mean the military is overwhelmingly pro war. Why do anti war candidates (Ron Paul, Barack Obama) lead in donations from active duty service members?

  10. 10 firstfriday
    January 10, 2008 at 12:08 pm

    Here’s a little bit of fact for you, so have your pills handy since you seem like you might be allergic to such things. http://www.heritage.org/Research/NationalSecurity/cda05-08.cfm

    Look at that study, don’t just dismiss it because it’s from the Heritage Foundation, actually look at it. I know the guy who wrote it, so if you have questions or want to dismiss it like it’s all lies, I can get him in touch with you so he can rip you a new one with the truth.

    As for “Bush isn’t even trying to win anymore,” not sure where you’re getting your news from, but branch out from Kos. Remember the Articles of Confederation? That didn’t exactly work out so well, so we scrapped it and started over. It took time for this nation to form and solidify, and we weren’t rounded up and murdered by the English randomly for years and encouraged to keep tribal identities and hate other tribes as a means to maintain the power George Washington. Check the timeline between the end of the Revolution and the ratification of the Constitution.

    I did get a kick out of the Johnny Trustfund crack, may use that next time I talk about a Kennedy.

  11. 11 WB
    January 10, 2008 at 12:12 pm

    I didn’t “earn the right” to say anything, I was born with it. Read the Constitution, jacka$$. I don’t need the government’s permission to say anything.

    You know, it’s not Conservative shouting down liberal speakers on college campuses, it’s liberals shouting down and attacking conservatives. Does that bother you at all? Of are you fine with that fascism?

  12. 12 PJ
    January 10, 2008 at 12:54 pm

    WB… True that!!

  13. 13 LLP
    January 10, 2008 at 1:26 pm

    I read the Heritage Foundation report, thanks, I’m not one to reject a study just because of the source. It is interesting to learn that volunteers after 9/11 were higher in household income and education level. However, I disagree with the following:

    “However, our research shows that the volunteer force is already equitable. That is, it is highly likely that reinstating the draft would erode military effectiveness, increase American fatalities, destroy personal freedom, and even produce a less socio­economically ?privileged? military in the process.”

    We need a larger army so we can win. We don’t have enough troops to pacify the country. If we need to invade Iran, we will doubtless need more troops. Everyone except Rumsfeld has been saying this from day one. Where are our troops going to come from? The sad truth is that the American public has been asked to support this war without making any personal sacrifice to help win. For those who do sacrifice, it is completely voluntary. It is possible to live as though we are not at war at all, because it’s not personally affecting most Americans in any way. As for the argument that draft troops are so less effective as to make the draft a poor strategy, I disagree, many wars throughout history have been won with draft armies.

    “Check the timeline between the end of the Revolution and the ratification of the Constitution.”

    That’s not a military strategy. Endless convoys, patrols, more of the same. In any event these “we might as well try to win” arguments are highly dismissive of the real costs of staying, both in lives and monetary costs.

    At least I’m urging war supporters to enlist in the hopes of winning. If you guys put as much effort into actually fighting this war as you did blogging about it and conducting scientific studies of the socio economic background of troops pre and post 9/11, I’m sure we could win. Obviously you guys don’t really believe your own rhetoric (that this war is really worth fighting and winning).

    “You know, it’s not Conservative shouting down liberal speakers on college campuses, it’s liberals shouting down and attacking conservatives. Does that bother you at all? Of are you fine with that fascism?”

    I don’t condone shouting down conservative speakers. Though I do think it’s absurd college Republicans waste their money to invite some celebrity to speak at their school just so the celebrity can make more money and sell more copies of their book. I don’t hate college Republicans, at the end of the day there is something cute about them. They really think attending college gives them a taste of what it’s like to be a persecuted minority. With every affirmative action bake sale you guys are hitting back at the Establishment and the Man, right?

  14. 14 firstfriday
    January 10, 2008 at 1:37 pm

    We eat what we bake, we don’t sell it. And we don’t claim to be Republicans, we claim to be Conservatives. We’re people for whom Goldwater is more than the punchline to a pee joke. And we have a sense of humor. And jobs, which is why you’ve been addressed by so many different posters under this name.

    It’s not up to you which speakers groups invite on campuses, it’s up to the groups. I would no sooner give you veto power over who I wanted to invite as you would give me the same power. The difference is I wouldn’t want the power and you seem to.

  15. 15 Larry
    January 10, 2008 at 3:29 pm

    LLP, you’re in way over your head and I don’t need to tell you where your head is, which makes it an uncomfortable position for you.

  16. 16 LLP
    January 10, 2008 at 5:24 pm


    What’s wrong? Am I not fighting the “battle of ideas” as well as you? Are you this guy?

  17. January 11, 2008 at 1:06 am

    Calling someone a coward who opposes the war is just that cowardly! If you have your Pom-pons ready…get ready….Go George Go! Please, every person with a smidge a decent DNA supports the troops, whether we served or not. LLP makes a reasonable argument though, when you cheerlead a mission, join up brother! It is also reasonable to oppose the mission, and support the troop. Look no further than than the USO, a mixed contingent of liberals and conservatives collectivley giving time and money. Look no further than those who have marched alongside IVAW members inprotest, and then bought lunch. Look no further donations made to the va by liberals. Yes, some people learned nothing from the protests in the Vietnam era, most have. Have the class to give the ass-hats no coverage! Do not call them liberals, nor progressive, nor conservative! You did not want to jointly hit Fred Phelps, but are all too willing to generalize “Liberals”! Give Me a break! Oh, yeah, isn’t Dan Quayle on the va board?

  18. 18 Righteous Babe
    January 11, 2008 at 2:08 am

    I agree with many things you say on this blog, but I have to agree with LLC on this –

    The below is disrespectful:

    Douchebag of the Week
    Just a total douche
    Liberals Are Corrupt
    Liberals divide us
    Liberals Make Us Less Free
    Liberals Make Us Less Prosperous
    Liberals Make Us Less Safe
    Liberals Who Need to STFU

    I get that you make a lot of jokes, but feel these title choices alienate. The more people that can hear your voice, conservative though it may be, the better your chances of making any real change – and isn’t that sort of the point?

  19. 19 PJ
    January 14, 2008 at 1:20 pm

    PC alert. Righteous Babe is afraid someone is going to be offended. In life someone is always going to be offended by something. Be an adult and get over it. By the way. My feeling about Political Correctness is that is is nothing more than leftwing censorship. I don’t call them “Liberals” because so called Liberals aren’t liberal (meaning openminded). Today I think the people on the left in this country are all refugess from Soviet Russia. They want us all to think like them and when logic is brought against one of their arguments they say they don’t want to talk about it or give you a blank look.

  20. 20 PJ
    January 14, 2008 at 1:40 pm

    I ask this question to our friends on the Left (and I’m being serious). What do you mean when you say you “Support Our Troops”? What does that mean to you and what do you do to support them?

  21. 21 LLP
    January 16, 2008 at 11:18 am

    “PC alert. Righteous Babe is afraid someone is going to be offended. In life someone is always going to be offended by something. Be an adult and get over it.”

    PJ is a typical right wing fake macho, wannabe toughguy Chickenhawk. He thinks sitting around in his underwear posting on a forum makes him personally brave, tough and strong. Get yourself over to Iraq, COWARD! Don’t be a wuss. Are you afraid you’re going to offend the terrorists?

  22. 22 PJ
    January 22, 2008 at 4:25 pm

    Wow, LLP you know nothing about me, but yet you call me names. You have no idea if I’m in Iraq right now fighting for the freedom so you can call me names and not have to worry about being arrested for what you say. I just asked a simple question and yet you still can’t answer it. What do you do to support your troops?? You at least did do one thing, you admited that we are in Iraq fighting (oh yeah and winning) terrorists.

  23. 23 LLP
    January 23, 2008 at 10:09 am

    PJ, I will spell it out for you. Every lost American life in Iraq is an unnecessary waste. Every year our volunteer army grows weaker and de-moralized, and there are too few remaining at home to defend the US in the event our own borders are under attack. It’s your inability to see this that is so disturbing. Turn off talk radio and the mind suck that is conservative media and think for yourself.

  24. November 18, 2008 at 6:31 pm


  25. August 20, 2010 at 3:00 am

    As a Libertarian I can confidently I don’t support the Federal Mafia’s legions of gangsters, rapists and mass-murderers and I intend to reproduce that banner for myself.

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